Channel Voices
Channel Voices is The Podcast for Future Channel Leaders, where we learn the ins and outs of partner ecosystems through casual conversations with channel professionals from a variety of industries, partner types and geographies.
Channel Voices
Building Trust Through Consultative Partnerships
Ashby Lincoln, with 35 years of IT industry experience, shares how honesty and technical expertise have been the foundation of his channel business for over two decades.
• Building a successful channel business requires bringing value to both customers and OEMs
• The Verinext approach focuses on truth-telling ("veri" = truth in Latin) and understanding customer needs before recommending solutions
• Channel ecosystem will transform through AI from transactional to business outcome-driven experiences
• Market will double in next five years with greater focus on marketplaces, cloud, and as-a-service models
• Effective OEM partners provide simple channel programs, field sales support, relationship-building approach, and backend incentives
• Constantly reinventing yourself is essential to staying relevant in the channel
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Hello, welcome and thank you for tuning in to Channel Voices, the podcast for future channel leaders, where we learn the ins and outs of partner ecosystems through casual conversations with channel professionals from a variety of industries, partner types and geographies. My name is Maciek and I'm your host, ashby Lincoln. Welcome to Channel Voices. Thank you for having me. Ashby, would you mind introducing yourself very quickly? Tell us a little bit about your channel background, please.
Ashby Lincoln:Yeah, absolutely. I've been in the IT industry for going on 35 years. My career started working for an OEM and it was there that I learned my first experiences of what it was like to deal with the channel. So one of the things I learned there was you know, as an OEM sales rep, you're not just looking for projects and customers that have projects or things are trying to get done, but you're also looking for you're always looking for partners that can help you get it done and really kind of move your product. And it was a very frustrating place to be. Um, most partners and uh, at that time and and it still is a thing today they're very fulfillment oriented, um, they're they're camping out and purchasing departments and and it was just very challenging. I mean, as an OEM sales rep, you're doing all the work, or the large majority of it, and when it comes time that the customer wants to move forward with it, that's when the reseller rep would show up and go I can get you that price. I'm really good at that and, as the person that was doing a lot of the work, that was a little bit of a rub, and so I think that when you did find an integrator or reseller that was doing a lot of the work. That was a little bit of a rub, and so I think that when you did find an integrator or reseller that was helpful, you really valued them and but they were few and far between.
Ashby Lincoln:And so after my OEM career I moved into starting a service provider with some partners back in the late 90s and wrote a business plan to deliver data storage as a service. Back in that day, their co-location facilities lots of startupcom companies were going into those locations and at some point that co-location provider was going to ask those customers, would you like to cross connect to our backup and recovery data service? And that was us behind the curtain for some of the biggest guys providing those services. And then the dot bomb happened and the customers started leaving very quickly and it was that kind of became the end of that journey. And then it was like what are you going to do next?
Ashby Lincoln:And what we figured out, my partners and I, was that there is an opportunity in the integrator community to be valuable. It is not just an opportunity, it is much needed. The customers need people in that integrator role that are technically very capable combined with being good people that really are just in search of the right outcome and can help people. So if you flip that coin over in the integrator and VAR space there is the opportunity to be valuable, but you have to work at it and to be valuable you have to first identify that that is a need, and value for us is defined as certainly you got to bring value to the conversations you're having with those customers in their projects, addressing their needs, their pain points, striving for that business outcome that we're all trying to get to.
Ashby Lincoln:But value is also brought to the OEMs and that is a focus area that I think a lot of people forget about. If I'm an integrator or a VAR and I'm just asking an OEM for leads, then you're really missing it. If you're doing right by them and communicating with them, you're going to get more leads than you know what to do with. They're trying to move whatever technology they're trying to sell and your value is just bringing value to them. And the example that I've used for people is when you get introduced to an opportunity by an OEM, they're not even necessarily asking you to close it. What they are asking you to do is to over-communicate with them every step of the way of that introduction they've made for you. That's value to them.
Ashby Lincoln:If you have a meeting that you scheduled with a customer, communicate it to the person that introduced you.
Ashby Lincoln:That's value, and then you just work together with them and I think that that's a kind of a lost area of focus and I think that's an opportunity to be really valuable.
Ashby Lincoln:So value is defined by going to the end users and being valued and differentiated in your conversations to those customers and prospects, but also to the OEM. And so when I started my first integrator in the early 2000s so over 20 years ago it was about delivering truth around next generation technologies and helping customers seek and get to that high technical functionality while saving money by being open to next-gen technology. And customers are starving for that and customers need that, regardless of even the economic climate. If I look back to when we started the integrator, it was a very, very somber time in our country. It was we were postcom, it was business was low and then we also had 9-11 and it was 60 days after 9-11 that we started our company, because we felt very strongly that if you bring value and you bring honesty and care and you are capable of having a differentiated technical dialogue, regardless of the economic climate. People will much desire that and so that's what we built and that's kind of what we've been operating on for, like I said, last 20 plus years.
Maciej:Fantastic and what an introduction right. You packed so much into it. I very much appreciate that and the whole honesty piece that you were talking about. Like that, honesty and trust is so important in the channel right. Nobody wants to work with another business partner or a vendor where the trust doesn't exist. The relationships crumble very, very, very quickly. So thank you very much for addressing these points as well. Absolutely Before we kick off with our main questions, there is a question that's been left for you by our previous guest. Our previous guest did not know that you're going to be on, but he had a generic question enough for anybody that comes on to answer, and that question has been left by Alex Glass from a company called Expel, and his question to you is how do you see the channel ecosystem evolving over the next five years?
Ashby Lincoln:Hmm, that's a good question. Well, the ecosystem is OEMs and distributors, integrators, vars. So that's the ecosystem. How is it going to change?
Ashby Lincoln:I think today our business is very transactional solutions. You know hardware here's the hardware piece you need, here's the software piece you need. It's very transactional solutions. You know hardware here's the hardware piece you need, here's the software piece you need. It's very transactional and I think that it'll transform a lot through AI, and AI is going to drive significant changes, one of them being that we're going to go from this transactional motion that we've seen for so long into a business outcome driven type of experience, and I think it's. You know, this business is going to double in the next five years. It's pretty crazy. And I also think that you know marketplaces are going to drive that different.
Ashby Lincoln:The cloud providers are going to drive significant change, as cloud providers are going to drive significant change, as a service is going to be more of a thing, recurring revenue streams are going to be more of a thing, and I all think they're going to have one thing in common and that's going to be driven by business outcomes.
Ashby Lincoln:So I think you could see projects. It's almost kind of like a step back a long time ago, when we gave performance guarantees, we gave cost savings guarantees, and I could see those kinds of metrics being incorporated into solutions as we continue to move through these next few years. I also think that for vendors and OEMs to be successful, they're going to have to really take advantage of AI, and we hear that all over the place, and what I mean specifically is OEMs are going to have to create automatic and AI-infused channel programs that result in lead gen being much more efficient Just support for the integrator community and the VAR community to be able to just quickly get and adapt to what technology changes that they're trying to get us to get our head around. And but I think I think that's you know just that transactional experience that we're all living today is going to move to more of a business outcome, and over the next five years is what I'm expecting.
Maciej:I appreciate you sharing that with us, and I'm sure Alex will appreciate the answer from you as well. So let's switch gears and get into. You know what you do and what Verinext does, so can you tell us a bit about? You mentioned some of it already, but that journey that Verinext has gone on. I know you pride yourself in being that. You know consultative partner to the customers. How has that model become like the center of your approach?
Ashby Lincoln:Yeah, we've already. We've talked about some of it already. I mean, I think that you know, to be able to be honest, you have to be a good person, right, you have to also be big picture focused, and what I mean by that. I mean you know Vera. Next, by the way, is you know Vera being the Latin word for truth, and Next is the next conversation, the next business outcome, the next goal that you're trying to achieve. Every conversation that we enter into with a customer is with that in mind. You know the OEM, or the widget, if you will. We'll pick the right one once we hear from the customer what their goals are, what their pain points are. This isn't an OEM experience where we walk in and we just jam on you.
Ashby Lincoln:The only thing we make and prior to Veridex, veristore was a company that I started with my partners, and from the day we started it, it was about delivering the truth about data storage. That's all we ever cared about. And to do that, you have to understand multiple technologies, you have to understand which ones fit in a different environment better than others, and then you have to be big picture, and that means that you know you can't really so much care about any or today's transaction. I don't care about today's transaction. What I care about is doing transactions and business with people for many years to come, and the only way to do that is big picture and honesty and knowing what you're talking about. And that is very simple in its formula. Not a lot of people do it or capable of doing all that, but that really is as simple as it gets. And I look back on our company that we've built and we've got some of the largest companies there is that have been trusting us and our conversations for a long, long time and to me that is the biggest compliment ever.
Ashby Lincoln:So you know, I'll tell you a quick story. I met with a customer, big company customer and he goes Ashby, I finally understand what you're saying. He goes. I had lunch with an OEM the other day and I answered all his questions during lunch and at the end of lunch he brought out the product they make and I go okay, and he goes. Well, it dawned on me that I could have answered every one of those questions with the exact opposite answer to every question and he was going to take out the same exact product, going to be perfect for me and I go. You've now heard me. You've now heard me, and it's not that OEMs don't do good things. The trick is is taking advantage of the things that they do well and staying away from the things that they don't, and sometimes you don't always get that, and I think that's the trick. There isn't any OEM out there that makes everything better than anybody else, and that's just the reality of it. So we'll help customers navigate that, and it can be very difficult for them.
Maciej:Thanks for backing it up with the example of the meeting. That really hits home. You know you make it sound so simple. When it comes to, it's all about being trustworthy, it's about being honest. But scaling a partner business with such consultative approach, I don't think that's an easy task. I mean, there's businesses starting every single day and they fail a year, two years in. But you've been on the market for such a long time and very successfully. So how do you maintain that high touch, that value-driven engagement, while still growing across multiple vendors and customer verticals?
Ashby Lincoln:Yeah, that's a great question and there's a lot that goes into that, you know. I think it's kind of at the core of why the channel exists and I think that we have resources that are specifically focused on. We have a cybersecurity team as an example, and I think to have the right conversation around that, you have to have resources that are very capable, very capable, but also the time that they're able to have every day is specifically focused on educating and understanding the technology. But taking that understanding and educating customers and prospects to that specific conversation End users, customers, prospects don't have that time in a day. Their days are full of taking care of their own company's requirements. They don't have time to research different technologies.
Ashby Lincoln:So what we bring to the table is Mr Customer, we have vetted out this technology and we've explored it. We know that they are financially backed in a really good way. They're a leadership team, we've checked them out. They have a really good track record. This is going to land really well for you, and so I think that bringing technical expertise and focus combined again with just trying to steer people right in the big picture is what's going to get you the end result, and so, whatever that focus area is you've got to bring technical and business expertise to that conversation and, from the perspective of the you know the right business outcome for the customer.
Maciej:And obviously that knowledge and vetting all of these different solutions is such a big part of what you do right, because rightly so, customers don't have the time to do that, but bringing it back a little bit like do you heavily invest in upskilling your teams in that you know, developing that knowledge, or do the vendors that you work with invest in you to deliver that training and making sure that you are upscaled?
Ashby Lincoln:Yeah, another great question. Both is the answer there. So we certainly are searching for people that can be difference makers for us in these disruptive technology conversations. I think that disruptive here is a good word. You know we have to help customers navigate the journey and they hear all kinds of things, but I think you can take next-gen technology that can disrupt the common way of doing things and giving a customer experience at a high level, saving them money, giving them a great value and a business outcome that they need.
Ashby Lincoln:From an OEM perspective, we get support and education from them and I think that the ones there are some that do it better than others. You know they, you know through their channel programs. I think that they need to be simple. They need to be supportive. We need to understand how we make our money. We need to understand what expertise and support they're going to bring us. So, yes, we're absolutely dependent on them to help us have these conversations and figure out. You know what their product does and what it doesn't do, and then you know, combined with that, you know where it fits and you know where you can go problem solve with it.
Maciej:You work with, you know, hundreds of OEMs. Your organization is so large and you do everything from like you mentioned, right, it's security, it's cloud, it's this. So many different teams, departments, but working with hundreds of vendors, oems it is impressive for sure, but it sounds very complex. Like, how do you go through your internal selection process in terms of yeah, I think this OEM would be a good partner for us. Is it based off of? I don't know, this is the portfolio we have and we limit per, I don't know, per cybersecurity, we only want to work with 15. That's max, right. Let's move on to cloud. How many do we work with there? Is there, you know? Do we need to fill the portfolio or do we have enough? What is your internal process about, you know, choosing the right OEM to work with?
Ashby Lincoln:Yeah, what you're touching on here is, I would tell you, is the most challenging part of what we do, is the most challenging part of what we do Because, if you think about it, if you aren't bringing good technologies and resulting in the right experience, then you're missing it, and I think that you need to have a wide breadth of knowledge in different technologies. So this is a very difficult one, but how we do it is and, by the way, I think that we've I think we've done a really good job of it. It doesn't mean that there are tough moments and tough days where it just seems like there's a lot, but that is what we do and that is what our company does, and I think, to do it the right way, you have to spend time with OEMs, partners, customers, prospects, distribution, to understand all the things that those different partnerships represent for you and which ones you should take advantage of and which ones you don't. For us, we have different. You know of the things that we do, so, whether it's cybersecurity or networking or hybrid infrastructure, you know AI conversations, cloud marketplaces. We have teams that specialize in all those different areas. We have partner managers that handle the daily logistics of those partnerships, but we have teams that specialize in those conversations and those technologies, that work together to evaluate the people that are knocking at the front door and want us to represent their technology, and we vet them out.
Ashby Lincoln:And I think that part of vetting them out is real simple. To me, it's two things that you have to have as an OEM. Remember, I started my career as an OEM person and I was looking for integrators and channel partners that could help me be successful, and my message was two things. When I'm talking to their sales organization, I bring you two things. Today, I bring you a great technology that will make your customers happy and I'm going to allow you to make really good money if you will listen and invest in this technology. And that is as simple as it gets.
Ashby Lincoln:So I think that when we evaluate different partners and their technology, we certainly are looking at what their technology is capable of doing, and it needs to be difference making. We also need to know that they are a good channel company and that our money is okay if we invest our time and resources in representing them. You know, I mean we all wake up every day for one thing, regardless of what we do for work, we all wake up every day for one thing, and that's money. We have to figure out how to make money to live our lives, and, whatever you do, it's important to know that your money is OK, so that the conversation that you need to go spend time on today is going to be giving you the return that you desire.
Maciej:I mean, it's that simple too yeah, and I like how you bring it down to earth and simplify things. I absolutely love it, but the complexity behind it it's is still there.
Maciej:Right, it still exists yeah obviously working with with so many oems, with so many OEMs, with so many partners, like you said, it is one of the most difficult things that you do and how you choose to do business with them, and I'm sure your teams are probably inundated with requests because you do have a reputation in the market. So everybody wants to work with you. So there is that wants to work with you. So there is that. But from the pool of the OEMs, the vendors, the partners that you work with, what are the things that you see some vendors doing very, very well and others maybe not so well and maybe making it a little bit more tricky for you to work with them? What is, what's the ideal kind of daily operations that would make your life the easiest?
Ashby Lincoln:Yeah, Touched on a couple of things that make this up. But you know, certainly good channel programs where you know that your money is good, they have to be simple, I think is an important thing. I think that you know when an OEM comes in and they're trying to motivate you with a channel program that is very complicated. I think it misses the mark. You know, if you sell it on Tuesday, you get to take advantage of this money. If you sell it on Wednesday standing on one leg, you get to make an extra three points. I mean it's just, at some point it gets to be a little bit complicated and then it kind of misses the mark. So I think simple channel programs what is also?
Ashby Lincoln:I find that in the best partnerships that we're waking up with and doing business with every day, just because they go through the channel, doesn't mean that they shouldn't have some type of sales organization that supports the channel and the customers in the field. You know, having 100% dedication to the channel or 90% dedication to the channel doesn't mean you completely withdraw your sales organization from the channel. I think the biggest, you know, the person or the company that pays the most price there, is the OEM itself. So I would recommend that they have some resources that support the channel and the prospects and customers. So those are the ones I really like Relationship builders, OEMs that can run with us, because we are certainly relationship builders, we're big picture, we're long term strategy in our conversations with our clients and it's hard to find OEMs that are in alignment like that.
Ashby Lincoln:You know they're very coin operated, quarter to quarter, month to month, and sometimes that again, that just doesn't always take the big picture into consideration that the customer is trying to do it. And I think another one is, you know, part of those channel programs is programs that have MDF. Support is very, very important. Back end support for the business owner in the channel is very important. They will spend more time OEM will spend more time on the SPFs they're giving reps, sales reps for the channel than actually developing a back-end program to motivate the business owner of the channel company. And it's kind of like you went over one seller. Right, you may went over one seller, but you missed the opportunity to win over the 50 sellers because you went right around the ship and went right for the individual. So I think those back-end programs for the business owner, for the company, are really really critically important. That can help an OEM really move their technology and not miss the mark.
Maciej:That's great. It just reconfirms exactly what I see in the market. Based on my role. I speak to many vendors, OEMs and their teams and, yes, SPIFs they're great, right. And if you work within a partner organization, then the next OEM is going to bring something out and you're going to go after after the other shiny thing, right. So you kind of you lose.
Ashby Lincoln:You lose that person in in that way the point I was going to make is in the in the spiffs may not be in alignment and oftentimes are not in alignment with what our company's objectives are, so they kind of get in the way a lot of times. But there's a lot of effort and and money being spent there and I would just say they ought to redirect that to more of a backend thing because of I think they'll have a much bigger impact and get a bigger return for the dollars they're investing. In doing that.
Maciej:Yeah, and that's exactly what I've been seeing. Some of the most popular programs that we automate that OEMs, vendors are really looking to get with us is typically around rebates, backend rebates and MDF automation. I appreciate this conversation and we could spend here a full day and we still wouldn't get through everything. I have so many questions for you, but we need to bring it to a close very, very shortly. I know you're a busy man. The one thing that you wish you knew before you started your Korean channel what would that be? I wish.
Ashby Lincoln:I knew maybe glad I didn't actually how you have to reinvent yourself over and over and over again to stay relevant in these conversations. I mean, you can take six months to learn how to really understand the new technology that just showed up today and then you become really good at it and valuable and supportive and beneficial to your customers. And then in six months, it's over. There is a new thing to learn and these aren't like simple things to learn. It is a very complicated. You have to you know, learn applications and you have to learn different technologies and what they will do. You have to consistently reinvent yourself.
Ashby Lincoln:Um, I wish I would have known that, but on the side where I'm glad I didn't, I've been able to navigate it with the help of a lot of smart people around me over the years, but that's one you know. We always said you know I should have been a brain surgeon, because the brain doesn't change. The only thing that changes is the technology that makes the brain surgery easier. That would have been a great easier path. Instead of what we did is we chose something. We have to reinvent ourself and go back to school and get educated every 90 days.
Maciej:Perfect, maybe. I think it's a good thing that you didn't know about this, because maybe that would prevent you from getting into this space. Right, you from getting into this space. Right, that's exactly right, perfect. Thank you so much, ashby, and if you wouldn't mind, just like Alex Glass at Expel left a question for you, would you mind leaving a question for our next?
Ashby Lincoln:guest please? Yeah, I will say that. How do you think customer expectations of partners will change in the next? I will say 10 years, five to 10 years.
Maciej:That's great. We'll make sure to ask it of our next guests, and please do tune in to hear what they have to say about this.
Ashby Lincoln:Wonderful Thanks for having me.
Maciej:Ashby, thank you so very much. We appreciate it. I had a wonderful time speaking with you. Until the next time, wonderful Thanks for having me. Ashby, thank you so very much. I appreciate it. I had a wonderful time speaking with you. Until the next time, cheers, thank you for tuning into this episode of Channel Voices. I hope you enjoyed today's conversation and gained valuable insights. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. Every bit helps us grow and reach more future channel leaders like you. Thanks again and we'll catch you in the next episode. Bye.
