Channel Voices

Trust, Recurring Revenue, And The New Channel Reality

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This episode of Channel Voices Podcast has been sponsored by Meter.

We explore how networking is shifting from hardware refreshes to daily value, why trust must be proven with evidence, and how partners can bridge from Capex to resilient recurring revenue without losing top‑line margin. Adam shares tactics for trials, enablement, roadmap transparency, and rules that reduce channel conflict.

• Defining partner value as daily outcomes, not one‑off sales
• Three partner mindsets: detractors, skeptics, early adopters
• 45‑day full stack trials as proof, SE support
• Upfront rebate bridging Capex to subscription margins
• Enablement path: lab installs, office kits, certification
• Transparent roadmap and faster feature delivery
• Co‑sell, services monetisation, certified installer network
• Going all‑in on channel and clear rules of engagement
• Talent shortage in networking and operational leverage
• Growth through repeatability over single deal maximisation


Channel Voices is currently sponsored by Meter.

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Until next time 👋

Maciej:

Channel Voices is sponsored by Meter. With Meter, you can deliver enterprise networking as a service to your customers, delivering fast, secure, and scalable connectivity. And for you, Meteor brings a predictable high margin recurring revenue model that helps you grow your business. Thanks to Meter for sponsoring. Go to meter.com slash channel voices to apply now. That's M-E-T-E-R.com slash channel voices to find out how to partner with Meter and accelerate your business. Adam Ulfers, welcome to Channel Voices.

Adam Ulfers:

Great to be here with you today. Thanks for having me, Maciej.

Maciej:

Thank you, Adam. Would you mind introducing yourself really quickly and tell us a little bit about your channel background, please?

Adam Ulfers:

Absolutely. Today I'm the vice president of sales and partnerships at a company called Meter. I've been here for about two years building our go-to-market motion, which is heavily focused on building out a channel that we can partner with to bring Meter's vertically integrated networking technology to market. 15 years ago, I was part of a small company called Meraki, which was, of course, acquired by Cisco. During my time at Meraki, I spent a lot of time building channels, free acquisition. And then when we were acquired by Cisco, working within the Cisco partner ecosystem to introduce the product to market. Spent about three years building the sales team and the channel in Europe as well, based in London, and then spent some time throughout various roles within Cisco leading up to running the Americas commercial business for Cisco prior to joining meter.

Maciej:

Very good. And I like hearing leaders like yourself talking about that European experience as well, because there could be there could be quite some differences when it comes to working with the partners in the US versus Europe versus Asia. So that international experience typically helps leaders like yourselves, I would imagine, to run global channels. So thank you for for the introduction. Before we kick into the real meat of our conversation today, there's one additional question that I would like to ask you, and that's one that has been left for you by our previous guest, Ashby Lincoln, during our previous episode. And his question for you is how do you think customer expectations of partners will change in the next five to ten years?

Adam Ulfers:

Yeah, and I understand that I'll be able to leave a question as well, but let me thank Ashby for this artifact from your previous podcast. And I think it's a really good question and something that we're seeing transition in in real time today. Simply put, I feel like customers will not consider themselves customers of partners that simply sell them a product once. I think that there's a growing desire or demand even, where customers require vendors and partners to deliver value every day. So here at Meter, we believe, you know, any vendor, including ourselves, should continually deliver value as opposed to making a box, selling a box, and walking away, right? Uh traditionally in networking, that's been the way things work. And as a service becomes a de facto consumption model across almost all products, um, networking is one of the last to join the club. And we'll be talking more about that today, I imagine. But any successful as a service model has really three fundamental outcomes. One is no upfront costs, two is that consistently delivered value. And three, I believe for it to be successful, it needs to be a non-discretionary expense for businesses, right? So you think about UCAS, security, CRM, et cetera, you know, these are critical business tools that are delivered as a service. And so at Meter, what we're doing is we're delivering the same outcomes that you know those products do, but arguably for a company's most critical infrastructure, their network. And I think this is probably already today, it's it's maybe less than five years from now, but certainly by that time that partners need to provide more than just a transactional service, but value every day.

Maciej:

That's a great answer. And exactly like you, as you noticed, Adam, yes, I will ask you to leave a question for for the next guest as well. We'll let Ashby know that your answer is available. So I'm sure he's gonna come back and listen to this podcast to hear your answer. When we originally met and started chatting, there's something that came up, and I wanted to kind of lead with this during today's conversation, and we talked a little bit about you know that skepticism that can creep up, especially in new spaces or where there are industries that are evolving at such a pace from the technical standpoint where partners are maybe not, you know, 100% trusting the new solutions or the new programs, etc. So from that kind of angle, like what kind of doubts or skepticism do you see crop up kind of most often from the channel partners in this space? And do you have a preferred way how to ad how do you address these before they become blockers in terms of the interactions or maybe even during the recruitment of new partners? What are your experiences in that regard?

Adam Ulfers:

Yeah, well, as a salesperson and any salesperson that listens to this, we all know that the best way to overcome objections is to address them before they come up. But uh I think what you're really describing here is where partners' most valuable asset is their reputation, the products that they're bringing to market must maintain or improve that. And I think that it's worth acknowledging that there's been many vendors that have adopted channel or attempted to enter the channel that partners have taken a chance on, and things may not have worked out according to plan. And so, you know, in the networking space, rightly so, yes, there is, of course, skepticism when we meet folks for the first time, and and typically it's you know around the the technical aspects of a product that's been around for 40 years. And uh so the technical folks and and partners want to dive deep on on all the tech technical aspects of product and service. And and again, I I can't argue with that at all. On the other side, though, of course, letting perfect be in the way of good can limit innovation, you know, and and diminish a partner's ability to be first mover and all the advantages that that come with that. What I'll say is trust is the core tenant of any successful channel engagement with one partner or thousands of partners. And that trust is built in in drips, it's lost in buckets. And so, you know, it takes time and effort to to build that genuine interest and trust uh in any product that you're bringing to market. I think that what we've found, what I've found in my experience here at Meter and even in the early days of of Meraki that I mentioned earlier is that there's three categories of partners. Uh, one is the detractors, and these are partners that just simply will not change. And that's okay because they've built a really successful business uh around the vendors that they sell today. But then there are the skeptics that won't be first adopters. However, with time and and built trust around product and engagement and co-selling and eventually uh proactive introduction of product to market, uh, they will come on side. And then there's the third category of the fast adopters and the event innovators and so on. And so it's really important for a vendor that's entering the channel to be able to identify and qualify in or out across those ideal partner profiles. Just like you have an ideal customer profile, I think you need to have an ideal partner profile. And we understand that today we're not suited for every single partner. And what I try to coach my channel team and my sales team on is try to find out early. And we will respectfully wait for the partners that see the value in what we're bringing to market, but may not be ready to jump in today. But there are plenty that are highly motivated by bringing new technologies to their customers and delivering value in that way, new consumption models, new ways to build value and efficiencies for their customers. And that's really where we try to focus our time is actually those latter two categories, the early adopters and innovators and the skeptics. And with the detractors, we believe every customer out there is a meter customer and they just don't know it yet. I'll extend that to partners. We hope that every partner in the networking space is a meter partner and they just don't know it yet.

Maciej:

Excellent. Thank you so much. I like how you how you split the you know partners and potential partners into those three categories. When we talk about that, you know, skepticism. Have you ever had a you know experience where that skepticism from the outside, from the partner side, have, you know, in some shape or form pushed you or the team to make a change that was useful for all the other partners within your program?

Adam Ulfers:

Yeah. We've been lucky to build our partner program from a place of experience. And so we had a good deal of influence from past partner programs that have influenced and brought advantage to the foundations where we started on. But there's of course a lot of education that you have to take on a daily basis from from partners. And so there's been a number of cases where that's occurred. Uh, as mentioned in networking, this is critical infrastructure for customers. It cannot fail. Uh, it's critical for partners that are delivering this service to feel 100% confident in what they would be selling and delivering to customers. So one thing that came up was proof being in the pudding, right? Partners want to see and and feel the product that they will be selling and customers will be receiving. And so that was the reason that we developed our trial program. Customers and partners can test a full meter stack for 45 days. All we need is a contact and an address. Uh, we send a full stack meter uh package to them uh with instructions for them to install, deploy, and test as well. Our sales engineers remain involved throughout the process, and and that was a direct result of feedback that we uh got from partners. I think another aspect I would share, if I could, real quickly, was on our compensation model for partners. Today, the vast majority, if not all partners participating in the networking space, are heavily focused on the CapEx expense of again making a box and selling a box and then coming back five years later to see how things are going. Uh now there's a large capital investment that the customer is making. There's a large capital injection that the partner receives when they sell that product, and then of course, uh by extension, the vendor. Well, meter is providing a fully as-a-service model, which means there's no capital required up front, and it's just a subscription for the hardware, the software, and then our premium tier subscription, the operations as well. And what partners said was well, this is really difficult for us to make the transition from top-line revenue to recurring revenue. And that resulted in us creating our resale rebate program, which is actually an upfront rebate that provides uh the top line margin for resale partners while still delivering to customers no capital investment required up front, and then that profitable, high-quality recurring revenue for partners without any expense on their side as well. And there's other examples, but I think one is on the technology that we created the trial program around, and then the second on the compensation inside of our partner program, building a bridge for partners that are motivated to move from that CapEx resale motion to that higher quality recurring revenue motion that includes that margin up front for them to protect their top line.

Maciej:

You mentioned the product and the 45-day trial. When you do recruit new partners or partners are coming to you because they're interested in offering this type of new networking solution to their customers, how does your program work in terms of onboarding a new partner? How do you make them feel comfortable, especially with you know, networking? It's such a technical product, right? So, how do you make them so comfortable from the start? What does your enablement journey for partners look like?

Adam Ulfers:

I think where I'll start answering that question is something I mentioned earlier is that trust has to be built over time. And so, yes, the trial program is one aspect of that. Uh, but our product is full stack networking hardware that we manufacture, software that we build on top of that, and then the operations of that as well. And so, with operations being inextricably linked to our subscription offer, there's an element that partners need to also see there. Um, they need to not only feel and see the product, but they need to feel and observe how our teams operate in coordination with them and how we project manage uh for customers. And so to take the next step from simply a trial stack to a lab environment or even better, powering our partners' offices, we will often provide them a very low-cost, not for resale uh office in a box, if you will, which is the full meter experience that includes either a meter facilitated install or alongside their services, ProServe, that they provide the meter hardware required for their space and a training uh in and coordination with them in installing in their lab environment or or in their offices. Uh there's of course then the requirement for uh the technical aspects of any partner or technical experts, uh operational experts to become more familiar as well. Actually, up until now, we haven't had a full-fledged certification program with uh meter. However, uh next month we're launching our first comprehensive uh partner education program, and um, it will be a meter certified network administrator program. Our user conference, uh, meter up is on November 18th. And uh hopefully uh nobody on this podcast will share too broadly or listening to this podcast will share too broadly. We will be launching that program then, and it will cover everything across meters network design philosophy, uh, which is redundant top to bottom by default. Our installation efficiencies based on our generative UI tool, meter command, and how that helps partners save time and money on installations and increase margin on installations, uh, competitive differentiators and technical deep dives and things like that, right? Um, so those are a couple of elements. The trial is the first step, uh, internal lab and office deployments, second, uh, and then we have uh an end-to-end certification program that we'll be introducing in the coming weeks.

Maciej:

When it comes to enablement and having courses for partners to get certified from a technical standpoint, the other aspect of partner programs, when I when I think about them, is also the communication. Especially in today's day and age where AI isn't pretty much in every conversation. How do you think an open conversation with partners, especially around product roadmaps, does impact that relationship with partners? Is there a one way that works better than the other in terms of these types of communications? Do you do this at Meter? Have you seen it work differently in other places? Would like to know your opinion on this.

Adam Ulfers:

That's a really interesting question. And I've seen different models of this around how transparent a company will be in their roadmap. Is it an NDA'd conversation? Is it an off-the-table conversation? Is it something that is table stakes? And one thing that's been really refreshing since I've been here at Meter is that we're close to 100% transparent with our partners and customers on roadmap. You know, one thing that I mentioned I was part of Meraki early on uh back in you know 2011. One thing that Meraki did really well was build trust through an initial experience. They were really obsessed with customer experience, so much so that they would actually bring people off the street that didn't have any IT knowledge to set up an access point. And that led to one of the greatest ROI uh marketing initiatives in the industry with their free AP program. Now, installation is part of our subscription, right? So the experience, as I mentioned, is inextricably linked. And it took us the better part of you know, the last 10 years to bring this product to market. It's tough to build a networking product, and unlike other vendors in the space, we didn't build an AP and then sell an AP, build a switch and sell a switch. We built a vertically integrated network product top to bottom, everything from power to switching to security appliance to wireless, uh, all running on a single operating system. And the reason I tell you all this is that the architecture that we've built actually lends to faster innovation, which is a core tenant of our value proposition, is that we no longer have to build a feature for the switch and for the AP or then for the firewall and everything else, we build a feature for the network. And an example of that is you know, it took Meraki seven or eight years to deliver BGP. Well, we told our customers at the beginning of this year that we would be delivering BGP at the end of this year, and we're going to do that. And so when we have a meeting with one of the largest resellers in the country a year ago and say, hey, here's our roadmap, here is what we're going to deliver for you and your enterprise customers, and we meet that all the way back to that conversation we were having about trust. That is how we um pave the road towards initial customer engagements, first sales, spreading the word on windwires, and so on, and a growing level of confidence that this architecture and way of delivering outcomes for customers around meter network is something that they can have confidence in. And so we are always going to uh within you know the lines of you know legality or something that might otherwise adversely affect the company, be very transparent with our partners and our customers so that they understand the outcome is what we're focused on. If your organization requires a critical feature, we actually have the ability to deliver that faster than any other organization because of what we've built. And we want customers to know that. That initial upfront experience always lends to initial forgiveness. And if you are going to deliver something to that customer that they require, it's of course easier for any organization to accelerate it with a paying customer. And if it's a matter of negotiating an agreement from partner to customer or you know, both combined, we want to make sure that this is a partnership. And that is that is, you know, back to my first question, we have to deliver value every day. And we have to, based on our business model, be in partnership with our customers and partners because we're taking the capital risk up front. Our customers and partners are not paying us until two, three years down the road. Our horizon is simply longer. And so that means we've got to deliver value, but we also have to deliver on promises. And so we think it's a great strength for us to be 100% transparent with where we are today, with what we can deliver in terms of that outcome, and then for customers that have critical requirements. If they are in agreement that a few months' delay uh is palatable, that we will deliver on that.

Maciej:

Thank you for sharing that in so much detail. I really appreciate it. We touched on that skepticism in the first place. Then we talked about how you typically welcome partners into your ecosystem. We talked a little bit about that enablement part and that new up-and-coming certification program that you will be introducing. And we did talk about that financial incentive, right? That upfront rebate as well. Uh how do you get a sense that your partners are actually feel empowered with it within your program, right? In their role within the ecosystem, and don't feel just like they're an add-on to your sales team.

Adam Ulfers:

Yeah, I think I think this is part of that early adopter category that I'd mentioned earlier. And so we have a really unique dynamic in how we're going to market with partners, specifically in network. It's very typical as we have introductory conversations for us to receive feedback like this seems too good to be true. How does this business model work? How are you delivering this level of margin to partners? And all of that goes back to what we've built from the ground up. The fact that we own the um manufacturing of hardware, right, and supply chain there. And that, you know, it typically costs a few hundred dollars to manufacture this hardware, but legacy vendors have a vested interest in manufacturing hardware for as low a cost as possible and selling it for as high a cost as possible. Or turning that on its head and simply passing those costs through to uh maximize partner margins and deliver innovative technologies to customers with great TCOs. And when we talk to partners, even if they fall into those other categories of skeptic and quite honestly, even the detractors, there's almost a hundred percent chance that they have a handful of customers that have asked for this type of model that they've not otherwise been able to deliver. And so what we want to do is we want to help partners, of course, in initial engagements with COSEL. And of course, we're building a sales team here that has deep understanding of channel. We only hire folks with channel experience, as well as, of course, and customer sales experience, and that COSEL will be really important on those initial engagements. But we want to lead those partners to a point where they can proactively build a business model around this and use meter to drive efficiencies in how they're serving existing customers and reaching additional customers. If the model works, they can take meter's full stack infrastructure and business model and take advantage of it. And I'll give you an example of that. If a partner sells a meter premium subscription to their customers, there are no meter employees that actually do installations or on-site support. It is a network of hundreds of certified meter installers that's across low voltage cablers to bars to MSPs that actually do that work. And what a partner has the ability to do is leverage meter's innovative network stack technology and the management efficiencies built into that while also maintaining their own professional services around that offer as well. And meter will actually pay them for those professional services. So once a partner is certified, they have the ability to sell meter subscriptions as well as be a certified meter installer and leverage both sides of that transaction and benefit from it with Meter's business model. And that's, I think, when the model begins to work. All of that investment into channel pays off once partners do feel like they have all the technical knowledge, all the operational knowledge, all of the sales knowledge to bring a vendor to market with little to no support from that vendor. Now, we have proactive service as part of our offer. So we will always look to maintain the 4.9 SLA that we promise as part of our end user license agreement with customers. So meter always is involved. But the way we position ourselves to both customers and partners is consider us an OEM that's another member of your team, providing you technology that's solving a problem, but also ensuring that the service delivery is maximized every single day of our partnership.

Maciej:

Thank you for again going through the whole process and calling out how it fits into those different types of partners categories. That really helps. Thank you. If you were to, and you do have some experience in this, right? Because you have, you know, you've worked with a within a company that's been established, company that's that's been acquired, you you have seen partner programs evolve, change, etc. But if you were coaching a company who's just getting started, right? They're just developing their very first go-to-market strategy, and they decided they're gonna go full on with channel. What would you emphasize for them to build absolute must to go after first?

Adam Ulfers:

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So earlier in our conversation, we were talking about vendors that have brought products to the channel that made it difficult for partners to maintain their reputation because of a poor experience, and of course that's happened. The other thing that companies do that make it really uncomfortable for partners to accept new technologies is that they're simply quote unquote tipping their toe into the channel. And so I think the number one piece of advice that myself or anyone who's familiar with channel for that matter would give to any organization contemplating this is that you need to emphasize that this is the number one strategy for your organization. And even by extension of that, more important than that is that all executives in the organization are aligned and committed to that approach. And there's been enough companies who've entered the channel and then exited the channel that there is universal fear inside of every partner that I've spoken to. That they'll bring a vendor to market and that they'll be undermined by that vendor who invariably takes a deal direct. Or if that vendor doesn't understand the importance of rules of engagement and partner protection, potentially losing a deal that they introduced to that vendor to another one of their partners unfairly. And so any organization that's looking to do this needs to be 100% committed to channel, have a very clear way of mitigating channel conflict, and have a really good balance between partner protection and customer choice. And it's difficult. There's no silver bullet, there's no exact science to it, but there are a lot of best practices out there that any company wanting to do this can benefit from.

Maciej:

What I'm hearing is basically as you enter the channel, you start talking to partners based on those best practices that are available. You need to have those guide rails of your partner program, right? So you everybody knows how we can move, where can we not step outside, etc., and knowing what will happen if we do, it's it's important, right? These are rules of engagement. And there's one thing that you also mentioned, and that's internal stakeholders. I know there's it's a topic for a completely separate podcast episode, but that's something that I would like to maybe bring up in the future with one of the guests, or maybe Adam will get you back to talk about this, right? And that's internal skepticism when it comes to channel go-to-market strategies. I'm just taking a mental note here. This is the one to return to.

Adam Ulfers:

That is a big topic and one you could fill an entire podcast with, no doubt.

Maciej:

With everything changing so fast in this industry, I'm talking about your network and industry specifically now. What do you see being the biggest challenge or maybe a new opportunity to strengthen trust between companies like Mieter and their partners?

Adam Ulfers:

So this one is really interesting. Two years ago, when I met the team here, uh our co-founder and CEO, Anil Varnassi, was talking to me about this tectonic shift occurring in the networking space. And I took him at, of course, face value. However, I'm now actually seeing it happen in real time. And so let me be specific here. At some point in the last five years, stopped being cool to be a network engineer for students. Every year there are 65% less students graduating with network engineering degrees than there were the prior year. And at the end of this decade, in the next five years, there will be about 40% of the currently employed network engineers that will be at retirement age, considering retiring, or retired. So there's an enormous void in the market of people who can do this work. And as I mentioned earlier, I didn't initially, well, I actually wasn't sure about that data that was shared with me two years ago. However, I'm now having conversations with both customers and partners who are conveying to me that there is a growing difficulty of finding people that are trustworthy to do this work. CIOs who are concerned about finding someone to replace them, right? Partners who are concerned about having enough staff to support their customer base. And as that grows in the market, the only thing that will take or occupy that void is technology. I mean, of course, that's that's the history of technology in a nutshell is that when there are no longer people who want to or can do specific work, technology has to fill that void. And that's exactly what meter is doing is with the technology that we've built, a full-stack network that is managed or co-managed alongside our partners and customers, the efficiencies that that drives will be an answer here for the customers that have limited resources in their IT departments, limited people again that can or want to do this work. We see a huge opportunity here. And it's huge today and growing every year. And I think that partners who are watching the tide change here are going to find meter is an excellent choice to begin introducing to those customers that are having those struggles. And that's the solution that we want to bring to market alongside our partners, is a technology that represents another member of a customer's networking team in the form of an OEM that's providing a full stack network, best in class software, and operational support so that those teams can prioritize their time against revenue generating and business critical operational efforts rather than simple networking support tickets.

Maciej:

And these numbers are actually a little bit scary. Thank you for educating us on this. I was not aware of network engineers' numbers being so low year on year. That's eye-opening for sure. As we are coming to a close, here's the question that I ask of every single guest that comes onto the podcast. What is the one thing you wish you knew before you started your career in channel?

Adam Ulfers:

Yeah, I think there's a lot of lessons. And as mentioned before, there are a lot of folks in channel that might think or say the same thing. What I'll share here is something that I had to learn, and I have to consistently reiterate with my team members, is that maximizing deals does not maximize growth. And what I mean by that is if you operate in a really large market, there there are more deals than any one company can reach at any given time, right? And and of course, that's the essence of having channel partners is to amplify your reach into market. So when we consider that it will be a default setting for a salesperson to maximize any deal they have their hands on, that's that's actually what you want. You know, you want salespeople that are incented the right way to bring your products to market. However, it brings you a you know one to three or you know, one to five ratio or three X or 5x ratio if you are including a partner in that transaction more favorably, right? It's not about getting all you can in one deal. It's about getting as many deals that are shared with your channel as possible and activating that flywheel, activating that that exaggeration in in your market presence that that channel can provide. And it's it's something that in every organization I've been in has has been an education down to the individual level. But when you get that balance right and you are prioritizing, of course, the interests of your customers, but then your your partner is in between yourself uh and and the customers that you're acquiring together, there's really amazing things that that can happen. And so uh to sum it up again is maximizing deals does not necessarily maximize growth. I think it is truly quantity over quality in this case.

Maciej:

Thank you so much. I appreciate that answer. And Adam, just like I asked you the question that Ashby left for you, would you mind leaving a question for our next guest, please?

Adam Ulfers:

Yeah, I've thought about this one. And I think Ashby's question was hard to top in terms of trying to gain insight into you know some of the directions of channel. But of course, the world that I live in is probably what will drive this. And it's around recurring revenues. And of course, I think you can you could change the way that this is conveyed to the next guest. But everybody understands that recurring revenues drive greater company valuations. And I don't think I speak to any partner that says it's not important to them to build a strong base of recurring revenues, you know, and improves customer relationships and stickiness, um, you know, keeps vendors and partners more accountable. My question is what will it take for partners to maximize recurring revenues and break what appears to be about that 20% barrier, specifically to resellers, of share of revenue being recurring versus resale?

Maciej:

Thank you very much for leaving the question for our next guest, Adam. Thank you so very much for coming onto the podcast, having a conversation with me. I've learned a lot. Appreciate it so much. Thank you.

Adam Ulfers:

Thanks for having me.

Maciej:

Channel Voices is sponsored by Meter. Meter helps partners deliver a complete networking stack, wired, wireless, and cellular with no upfront costs and ongoing recurring revenue. Offer your customers the best in connectivity while building a more profitable services business. Thanks to Meter for sponsoring. Go to meter.com slash channel voices to apply now. That's M-E-T-E-O.com slash channel voices to find out how to partner with Meter and accelerate your business. I hope you enjoyed today's conversation and gained valuable insights. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. Every bit helps us grow and reach more future channel leaders like you. Thanks again, and we'll catch you in the next episode.

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Maciej Danielski

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