Designing Partner Programs for Lifecycle Value

We talk with Pablo Hanono about how partner programs move from metal tiers to value motions, and why modern partner ecosystems need clearer economics, better data, and stronger infrastructure. We also unpack how AI shifts partnership work away from manual execution and towards judgement, analysis, and trust-based relationships. 

• Building a global partnerships career from Buenos Aires 
• Turning Books of the Channel into a learning hub and course 
• Moving beyond silver and gold tiers towards value motions 
• Specialising partners based on customer needs and outcomes 
• Designing for lifecycle value across co-sell, delivery, adoption and renewals 
• Using AI to remove admin friction and speed up program work 
• Doubling down on analytical thinking to focus on the right partners 
• Investing in PRM, incentives tooling and strong partner operations teams 
• Embedding partner economics into programme design from day one 
• Asking whether partners will accept agents over real people 

Check out he course, 'Partner Ecosystems Fundamentals' - https://booksofthechannel.com/course

Read Pablo's article, 'The Partnerships Professional Role in the Age of AI: From Execution to Judgment' - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/partnerships-professional-role-age-ai-from-execution-judgment-hanono-0wlkf

Books of the Channel on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/books-of-the-channel/

Channel Voices is currently sponsored by Meter (https://www.meter.com/channelvoices). 

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Until next time 👋

Transcript

Welcome To Channel Voices

Maciej 0:51

Hello, welcome and thank you for tuning in to Channel Voices, the podcast for future channel leaders, where we learn the ins and outs of partner ecosystems through casual conversations with channel professionals from a variety of industries, partner types, and geographies. My name is Maček, and I'm your host. Pablo Hanono, welcome to Channel Voices. Thank you, Maček. Nice to be with you. Thank you for having me. Excellent. Let's start maybe with your introduction. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and about your channel background, please?

Books Of The Channel Origins

Pablo 1:45

Yeah, so first of all, I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina. I built my entire partnerships career from here. So I think that is kind of one unique aspect of my career as well. It's kind of really supporting partnerships on a global basis and not being in some of the main countries as you may imagine. Really, I started in partnerships early in my career. So I'm coming from a social communications and marketing background. And really, my first job in partnerships, right when I was graduating, was for a company called Everything Channel. They acquired NextLevel, which was the company I started working for. So really I started like right precisely in the channel space. Actually, my first job was to manage Intel Inside Co-ops, co-marketing program, doing advertisements and kind of working with local resellers. That really helped me kind of get exactly into the channel resellers distribution model. After that, I got into inside sales, managing a little team of partner managers for Abaya, again, working with partners in Latam. And then really my big jump was to move to Oracle, where I worked for over a decade. Really, I did different things at Oracle, the most relevant for the past almost decade, was to manage their partner program and go-to-market initiatives. So that's where I really learned a lot of the skills and really kind of how the industry shaped into where we are now. We went through all the transformation from on-prem to cloud and how partner programs evolve with it. And then also in the last two years, I've been managing Pega Systems Global Partner Program as well, which is a company focused on workflow automation in primarily in the financial space. So that's that's what I'm doing these days.

Maciej 3:33

And I know you also have a side project that you that you work on. Can you tell us a little bit more about uh the books of the channel, please?

Pablo 3:43

Yeah, so maybe you've heard about it. So this is really a project that uh that started in in the COVID times uh almost five years ago. Um really I always did my best to get myself educated and learn like really the latest. Um I think in in partnerships, of course, there's no kind of formal career or major to say, hey, I'm a partnerships professional, because we all come from different backgrounds. Uh so I always tried, one of the vehicles to learn was to go and uh read books. In that case, I said, hey, why can't I take some of the books I've read and start sharing those with a community of partnership professionals? So that was really the intent. Uh it also helped me connect with people that I didn't know. So maybe uh I went into partnership experts that I never talked to. So it was also kind of a way to get to know more people and share the knowledge because I think we all, I mean, as partnership professionals, I think we're all very well aware that we need to be constantly learning new things. Uh so I started Books of the Channel really as a project that aims to share first books by and partner and for partnership professionals. Uh, and then in the past uh year or so, I started creating um some of the really resources that can help our uh our ecosystem with different, I don't know, helping you navigate your career. So create content uh to get better at very specific tasks around partnerships. And then most recently, and this is really the development of a lot of time that I invested in and trying to capture all of the essentials of working with partners. So I launched my first course, Partner Ecosystem Fundamentals, which pretty much consolidates all of the basic aspects of doing business with partners.

How Partner Programmes Have Shifted

Maciej 5:28

Congratulations on launching the course. We will, of course, put the link to the course in the show notes so people can go and check it out and enroll in that course. Highly recommend it. You know, as your experience has largely been in partnership space and partner programs, from your perspective, what would be some of the biggest shifts you've seen in how partner programs are designed and managed today over the course of your journey so far?

Pablo 5:59

Yeah, no, so that that's a great question. Um I think I kind of briefly touched base on that uh in my introduction. Um as I said, really my my core uh area for the past years has been program design, development, managing, evolving partner programs. I think, especially when I started, of course, if we go back like 20 plus years in time, really this was pre-cloud. So the focus was probably like the the old traditional channel model that we all know. Uh a vendor, a distributor, a partner, uh, really everything was truly focused around the transaction at the point of sale. Um I think that that's how partner programs were designed. Also in parallel, I think that the really the early lessons we got around, hey, how partners look like was like traditional partner types, like a reseller, a bar, an SI, a distributor, like kind of learned those essential terms. Um I think that through time and especially as we expanded the really into more like an ecosystem approach, as many people like to say. So we're going from traditional types to more complex partner ecosystems of different partner types. Uh, I see the big trend, which was to drop those uh partner programs, focus on silver, gold, platinum, diamond, those kind of metal-based uh tiers, and shift more into what we call value motions, uh, which is traditionally sell, build, deliver, some may include, manage. So that's where you can start grouping partners based on the value they deliver and not how they introduce themselves. Uh so that for me, it's one of the first shifts in how partner programs have been designed. Um, I think we always say that probably Microsoft uh in the early 2000s when they really launched like this silver and gold designation, they set really the stage for all the partner programs to come. And then I don't know if there's like someone who can say is that they invented this tracks uh approach, uh, but that's really the next trend. Like that, and when I was at Oracle, precisely that was one of the big tasks I had, which was to evolve their silver gold platinum model into a uh motion uh track-based program. Uh and I think that also aligns with uh with specialization, that's another emerging trend that we saw in the last decade or even longer, uh, where we need to understand, hey, there's so many partners, there's like millions of partners almost in across the globe. So you need to find, as a partner program, um, you need to find a way to identify those who are the right feed for what customers need. So that's I think kind of another trend. And that means also that you as a partner professional, you need to understand where the value is coming from the partners you work with. That I think that's the second trend is like moving into this lifecycle value where especially around cloud and and the era of subscriptions, you need to ensure the value is not just at the point of sale or transaction, but actually, hey, do you have partners who are bringing you deals and helping you close those deals? And maybe it's a different partner who's bringing you the deal and doing the co-sale, and then it you transact it on your own paper, but then you need the partner who's gonna help you implement, deploy so there's a proper go live. And then maybe there's even another partner who comes in, it's gonna train the client on your product and gonna help them really drive value realization and consume the product. And then maybe you're gonna take the renewal direct. So, all of those aspects, I think that's part of the complexity we live in. And part of our own task as partnership professionals is to kind of understand where that value comes in, where you can reward, when you can incentivize and kind of manage all that complexity for mutual growth. Like you as a vendor, and of course, all the partners need to make money as well.

Value Across The Full Lifecycle

AI Forces A Judgment Shift

Maciej 9:49

Thank you very much for for such a detailed description of this. Now, I've personally have seen the rise of partner programs where points are being awarded rather than just just you know the badges overall at the start of the year, and we'll we'll see how things go. Where it's it's throughout the year partners earn points for doing um certain things, things like certifications, training, that specialization that you mentioned earlier is a big portion of that in the programs that I see on a daily basis. The next question, which is which is sparked by the article that you um that you have recently published, you described a shift from execution to judgment for partnership professionals, especially in the age of AI. So, how how do you define that shift in practical day-to-day terms uh for someone running a partner program today?

Pablo 10:41

Yeah, no, you you know, I've been ref, I mean, I think like everyone these days, like we're all amazed and terrified with the impact of AI in our lives on a personal basis, and of course in a professional basis. Like I still sometimes ask myself, like, I'm gonna have a job in five years from now, or like, what is it that I need to do in the next couple of months, not even years, to make sure that I'm still kind of up to date, relevant in the market, and driving value for myself or for whatever companies I support. Um, I mean, when really I wrote that, my my thinking is, and and I believe this applies across the board, even if you are a partner manager, if you work in operations, of course, a lot more, but if you work on partner strategy, um, we we know there's aspects of our job, and and depends on your profile. Sometimes that is the boring part, or maybe it's the interesting part. I think that it's I mean, uh it's not that I can take for granted that people uh really uh chess lab being at events, talking to partners, like developing the business and building relationships as being like the good part of the job. And then the other part, which is the back end, is like getting into the daily routine where you need to respond to emails, you need to fill in reports, uh, you need to coordinate tasks and kind of do more like this manual operational execution layer. Uh so what I'm saying is of course, every person needs to think of where they sit in front of that big question mark. But I mean, we already know that even just using basic tools like ChatGPT or like Copilot or whatever basic tool that you're already using, either because your company supports it, or even if they don't, you are still using those anyway, because we're using those tools on our own personal life. So why wouldn't you use those ChatGPT to help you respond to an email and your in your job? So I think as we get some help in doing those operational tasks, then you you learn and you realize you are more effective. So I'm taking less time to write an email or sometimes write a report that took me a lot of time. Um, I can give you an example from my own experience. So I'm responsible to prepare the partner program guide for our partner program. It's a document we create every year, yeah. Where we explain pretty much how you do business with us and with Pega Systems in my case. So two years ago, it took me like weeks to produce that document through all the iterations and revisions. Last year, I think I did it in less than a week. That is just like one concrete example of how, even at the personal layer, you can actually use these tools to enhance and take less time to do the same. So, really the big question for me as a professional, being partner program, being again, especially operations, is like how do you plan for some of those operational tasks that probably are gonna go away or just take less of your time? So you need to shift into the more, let's say, productive time activities that are part of your job. Um, of course, each role requires different tools. So partner managers, and maybe we can talk about it later on, uh, I mean, are more into the external front end, talking to partners and developing the business. So for them, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be a relief to really stop taking time to do some of this operational stuff. But if you are in partner operations, then that really, I mean, you're in a much tighter position because you, I mean, if really your value in the market is just go and execute some of these processes, then you need to get better. And that's why what I'm saying is we all need to get better, learn, explore, like whatever ways you can find, but just to understand the the the how the business works, understand the logic. Like, I mean, we if if you're on the vendor side, we are always really from the vendor perspective. Sometimes we're not as embedded into the the daily work of a partner and how they make money. What is it that a partner needs and like why they are partnering with you? So you need to kind of change your hat, put yourself in their shoes, and and kind of really understand the business. Because when you understand the business, then you can add value from a different angle. And it's not just like that operational aspects of your child. That that's kind of the big idea that that's behind this article.

Three Skills For Partner Managers

Maciej 15:02

Thank you. And I'm gonna take you up on that on that offer to talk about you know partner managers a little bit more. So imagine you know, a partner manager is listening to this podcast while they're driving, potentially to a partner meeting, right? So, what are the top three skills they should be doubling down on over the next 12, 24 months to remain relevant in this evolving environment as we see it with AI coming in and everything else?

Pablo 15:30

Yeah, so that that's a great question. I think uh as I said, like partner managers are worried as the same way that other people in in the space. I think with I mean it's an interesting question, and I'll kind of bring different angles. Um, as I said earlier, not everyone likes the same things. In general, of course, if I mean if we can say, hey, what is the kind of profile of someone who works as a partner manager? And I think these are people who are typically like easygoing, they do like to build relationships, engage with partners, like they are really, in a way, salespeople uh in the back end. On the other side, I also think there's I mean a bunch of partner managers that are also have some strong kind of background in terms of operations. So sometimes maybe of course it depends if you are an alliance manager and you're just like one person managing Accenture globally. So that's a different profile. But sometimes you have partner managers who are managing, I don't know, 10 partners in a geo or like even 50 partners, because they're more like a territory-based partner manager. And in those cases, I'm pretty sure part of their job is more like execution, operational stuff versus going and developing a big relationship. Um so I think depending on where you are, uh, I think removing this operational noise, if you can call it that way, which is getting help on developing QVRs, I mean getting better at doing all this recaps of like every time you meet someone, do the notes, follow up on the actions. Uh, I think these are very simple tasks that I, of course, I think it's not from like a year or two from now. And these are things that the effective PMs are already doing right now, using AI tools. So I think that kind of you need to excel at really maximizing your time. So I think that's one task is like adopt. There's a lot of automation tools. I mean, I think some of the people in in our field maybe are kind of using some of the LLMs like ChatGPT, Copilot. You're using those. I think very few already have the experience of building an agent. Um, and of course, depends if your company allows you to do so. Of course. I think if we have, I mean, if we have time, I think that is an area to explore and how you can be better at driving insight. So I think that's kind of back to the the question, like three things. So one for me is this operational noise, try to get better, I mean, reduce the friction, uh, reduce the time it needs to do the admin stuff. And in parallel, I think you need to develop more analytical thinking more than ever. Even if you infuse all the information to an AI and tells you, hey, go talk to this partner. So you need to get better at using the data to really be more effective in terms of these are the partners that really are driving my numbers, then I double down on them. I think some partner managers, especially if you have a large portfolio, are not always great at understanding what they need to do with some partners and they spend time on relationships that really don't add the value they need. And I think the key here is like go from reactive in case you are working on a reactive mode and be proactive. So use all of these tools to help you. Hey, this is like the list of 100 partners in my territory. Who are the partners who are driving registrations and who are the partners who are closing those deals faster? Okay, now I know who they are. Now let's just automate some kind of format that helps me start driving notes and um and scheduling time with those partners so I meet with those that matter. So I think some of those are tasks that partner managers should 100% uh excel these days. Uh and the last one I'll say is don't forget the core of the partner manager role, which is build relationships. Uh so I think if you ask me, I will always try to double down on that. And that's kind of uh even a personal lesson for myself, based on my experience, kind of working in the back end because I manage the partner program. So it's not that I talk to partners like one-to-one on a common uh basis, daily basis. It's more like one-to-many, or like I see partners at events, or like roundtables and and those. And I think it's it's core to our I mean, our job is always to keep those relationships um in the long term. So, really the the only way you can escalate the business is building trust and understand how partners make money so you can help them, and then it's a win-win. So if you ask me, I think that's the third aspect, like double down and and still focus on on spending time with your partners, either on the phone or in person, if you can, depending on your job.

Maciej 20:02

You mentioned that analytical skill being being so important, and that brings me back actually to the very first episode of Channel Voices, which which was a conversation with Jay McBain. And he said I he predicted that channel account managers will evolve into data analysts. They will be spending a lot of time with with data, identifying who are the partners they need to be focusing on to either bring them up to speed or even make the decision to cut someone off because there isn't enough data as an evidence for that relationship to work, right?

Capabilities To Run Partnerships Well

Pablo 20:37

So no, no, you're you're spot on. It's been it's interesting. Sometimes I'm I think we're all I mean, all the people that work in partnerships, and when you look at some of the giants in the industry, like Microsoft, like you know they have over a hundred thousand partners across the globe. So it's impressive. Like, and then you look at your own partner ecosystem and you say, hey, like, how can they manage that immensity of partners? And the truth is, like, you manage it with data and of course with systems, but yeah, I mean, you not always know the value that each partner is bringing to the table. So I'm pretty sure if they took the time to go register in your program, because that's why Microsoft has 100,000 partners and more, it's because they see some value. It's just that sometimes you, as a vendor, you don't know what that value is unless you have the right way to get those insights and then focus on those that truly kind of matter to you. So it's 100% agree with what you said.

Maciej 21:33

Obviously, as the partner ecosystems continue to evolve, and you mentioned it yourself, it's only becoming more complex. So, from from that exact perspective, what are some of the key capabilities that the companies, the organizations need to develop to run partnerships effectively?

Pablo 21:53

Yeah, no, that that's really a good question. I mean, I think it opens like many angles uh from for sure. I think one of the aspects that sometimes I'm I'm just trying to not go to the like the obvious answers that probably other people will will give you here. Um I I I mean I have a phrase which I like to sometimes repeat, which is I think infrastructure is part of the strategy, or is I don't want to say it's the strategy, um, but it is really core. Uh, because I've been in my in my career, I've been in kind of both sides. So in one side, need to work on developing the goal to market strategy. So really kind of think through what's the right uh way to develop the relationship with your partners, how where you need partners and for what you need them. And on the other side, I also need to get stuff done. So we we need to design the nice shiny PowerPoint that you're gonna put on stage and then you need to be like the next day, you need to be in uh really in the back end just developing all the the backbone to support that. So I think a critical component of running programs is to invest. I think the really successful partnership leaders understand that's that it's equally important to have the right strategy, that having the right team in place, really having that that strong experienced team of operations, RevOps people who can make things possible. And I think so it's it's as critical to have the right people to support you as it is to invest in the right technology. I think many years ago we didn't have really that that infrastructure that can help you scale your partner program. And I think even today all I mean all partner teams still manage pieces of their their work through spreadsheets. I think we know it even if we would like to avoid we still operate in spreadsheets. You just need to operate with spreadsheets to the least extent um and just not run your core operation in a spreadsheet. This to happen a lot where the rhythm of the of the business so I mean your business leader or your CRO or CEO is coming and say hey I need to implement this new road to market. And when they come and say that is truly they they want to execute that in three to six months. They're not expecting that you are going to I mean understand the business talk to each and every stakeholder develop a partner program announce it and then launch it a year later. So if you don't have the people in place and you don't have the right tools to actually get it done then you are in trouble. So I think if you ask me like what are the the aspects is go early on into the right platform that can drive that infrastructure like the PRM like the the system to manage your incentives like really have uh built in that functionality which can help you scale because otherwise and especially these days that it's so competitive then truly you're not executing like exploiting all the all the resources you have so that that's for me it's one critical angle to just add on top of like whatever it is that you need to be effective in driving the kind of the business through partners.

Modern Scorecards And Partner Economics

Maciej 25:09

Thank you for that. And obviously you've been designing partner programs um you know you were strategies strategizing on go to market um routes with partners if you were to design a modern scorecard I suppose from from scratch right what what are some of the metrics you or views you know dashboards whatever do you think should be included in you know for most organizations that um run business through uh partners in one shape or another but are still possibly not tracking it today like do you have any of those top that you think that are kind of not as prominent yet?

Pablo 25:54

Yeah so I mean I'll bring different angles again to this one. I think when we look at especially like partner program design or like how we want to work with partners we often get into okay let's just think of a program structure like a framework tiers benefits requirements so you get very quickly into that piece and and even if you know the financial aspects are important I mean even in my own experience we always start with a partner program framework and then you need okay now let's just look at the incentives and the economics. I think like one huge step that you can always take is to consider the the financials like really the partner economics aspect as part of as a core component of your program. So I wouldn't announce a program without the financials embedded into it. So this as I said like infrastructure is part of the strategy. I think economics are part of the the core partner approach. So that's I think that's kind of the the first uh takeaway um I like to use the metaphor of a highway so I believe partner programs are a highway that you build so truly cars and vehicles can get you to places but on the other side I don't think partner programs uh in a way are gonna kind of shift your business or really drive results per se. I think you design this avenue this highway that can enable things to happen and then the I mean things happen because there's fuel because there's money on the back end. So you need to think of that as like a core component. So for me if if I need to start developing a program or like a go-to market motion from the ground up I will always try to design like the program in alignment with with those uh incentives and financial aspects. Of course those uh that leads to kind of another angle which is I think these days uh as I as I referenced earlier value is created in in different ways. So Jay McBain you mentioned earlier uh he always talk talks about like especially in the subscription era uh in this modern era you need to look kind of invest a third of the money you have available before the transaction a third in the transaction and another third post sale um I think another way to look at it in in modern ecosystems is there's always a partner who's gonna uncover an opportunity. Sometimes they bring you a deal let's call it a referral or a finder. So we are I think we know there's usually a program in place to to compensate uh referrals or finder fees. Then there's another phase which is okay now you have the opportunity. Now how do we convince this customer to go pick your solution? That's where you get into co-sale motions where partners can help you do a proof of concept, run a demo, get you in a in a meeting room with someone you didn't know in the same customer. And the truth is sometimes the partners who's doing this heavy lift in terms of convincing and driving the client towards your product it's not the same partner who brought you the deal. And then of course let's say you are successful you are convincing like everyone's happy that's hey I want to buy well you know sometimes certain customers I don't know if you're in in government you know it they need to to consume like especially in the US with all the contract holders so even if a given partner helps you all the way or even if you do it directly then you need a partner for the transaction piece and really the PO and the ordering. Then of course because they this is at least in in the software or SaaS world you need to drive that product to be installed configured and really actually work for your own for for real so you need another partner who's gonna do and drive the goal live. Then you may need someone else who's going to expand and do cross sell up sell and then the renewal so there's different angles from where you're providing value and I think as part of your core design of the program and go to market you need to recognize those different partner types and embed that into your even systems like creating a personalized journey for those partners in your program how you provide kind of the right things to each partner type and motion so they can be effective kind of bringing those outcomes. And then the final thought linked to this is programs and go-to-market strategies are based on really the the strategy that your company has. So there's companies who say hey I want to go direct and then at some point they realize that if they want to grow faster they need to go the indirect work with partners way. So if you have the right infrastructure the right systems that also helps you understand where those partners are providing that value and kind of write the full story even back to your own boss and say hey you know what we are exploring partners here. Here's where they add value. They brought XYZ number of source revenue they helped me co-sell in these accounts so you need those tools and that kind of journey and proof points to even prove precisely the value of your ecosystem and then of course you need to invest and reward them and kind of keep the the the ball flowing but I think these are all kind of core components and things that I like to share in terms of I will do differently if I started a company from from a scratch myself this is.

Old Channel Models Still Matter

Maciej 31:23

No of course of course it's hard to get it right the first time you do it but it's that it's definitely it definitely evolves right the market evolves the partner types evolve the ecosystem itself evolves like you said there's so many different touch points that a customer needs these days not only to to come to the conclusion yes I'm gonna go ahead with that solution but to get it implemented and work and be trained and all of that. So there's plenty of work that goes on behind the scenes it's not just that you know traditional channel um yeah we sold through distribution through that reseller to that customer right those those days those days are pretty much gone.

Pablo 32:01

Yeah you know they're gone but on the other side I mean I've been working more on the software side of the business lately but on the other side it's interesting but that still applies I mean sometimes I I I mean we have a trend to say hey we're moving from channels like traditional one two tier distribution model into the ecosystem economy and and platforms. I think that that's the case for some vendors I mean just go to I don't know some computer kind of laptop business they still operate under the same uh channel two-tier distribution model whether you have product managers inside of our and they're still driving kind of driving product and and doing portfolio rotation and moving I mean moving boxes as well. So that's the other piece. I think we we we need to always try to keep our balance into who are the vendors that can really be in that space where this ecosystem approach applies and then others that still operate in the the old way and that still gets kind of is super successful for them as well.

Maciej 33:06

That's kind of just one little clarification that I think it's absolutely but even in those you know even when we refer it to the old way we've also seen that resellers in that space and distributors especially they started to reinvent themselves a little bit as well they offer additional services to stay relevant um for for their partner community as well for the vendors that's that they work with right the first kind of thing that I recognized that distribution is going a little bit faster than the others from from the partner types was when distributors really started becoming that financing point for um for buying solutions right be it be it hardware or software that was kind of the first step when I where I saw okay something's happening people I don't know absolutely you're right I mean of course we see like I don't know Aro Sphere Aro get creating their own marketplace like the same with data C next these days or I mean getting into white I mean white glove services so they even can provide a services arm to the some of the resellers and just use that as their own branded team.

Pablo 34:11

So yeah no for sure I mean I think that the entire market is is evolving as well.

Career Advice And Listener Questions

Maciej 34:16

This is so cool to be talking about this stuff all the way from from from from today and going backwards what what worked what doesn't work and how other partner types are kind of reinventing themselves right but um we're running out of time so there's a couple of questions that I still need to ask you because they're kind of mandatory on channel voices. Okay first one let's start with and I know you started your career in channel right but if what's the one thing that you wish you knew before you started your career yeah no you you know I I was kind of thinking through that through that before our our session today.

Pablo 34:54

I think even if I touch based uh on this I think building relationships is is one of the core things of course we know building relationships is important. I think bottom line we are in partnerships that means you need to partner with other people so even if your role doesn't imply that you get in touch with I don't want to say other people but sometimes even if you are in operations you still talk to other other stakeholders within the company so I will say the one thing I will I don't want to say do differently but I will invest even more time is get on whatever event you can kind of be in any meeting that you can and kind of always keep the conversation happening getting to know new people building relationships if you are in a company um try to know as many people as you can from other departments. So if you are in partnerships make sure that you have your contacts at sales you have your people at marketing that you know people in finance or in product so I think building those cross-functional collaborations is always essential because it helps you first provide more value so be kind of recognized by other people and also kind of builds on your long-term career. Some people say that your net worth is your net growth or your net worth uh so I'm I think clearly I will always uh spend time and more I mean it's never enough uh how much time you can invest in building relationships as part of your career.

Maciej 36:25

That's kind of my my two cents thank you very much now on the previous show the previous guest that we had on the show was Justin Trumbold we talked a lot about AI we we have this concept of one guest leaves a question for for the next so would you mind answering his his question which goes like this generative AI is reshaping so many parts of our industry right now he's curious how has it caused you to rethink the way you deliver value to your clients and customers not necessarily how you structure partnerships or coastal motions but how you define communicate and ultimately create value within your ecosystem?

Question For Next Guest And Wrap

Pablo 37:08

Yeah that's that's a great question uh for sure kind of opens the really the the can to many many possible answers and I will probably go back to some of the things I shared earlier um I think we need to reflect kind of go back to this idea of shifting from execution to to strategy. I think we more than ever need to think of the big picture, understand partner economics, how I mean again partnerships is like a win-win space. So we always need to find the value that partners bring to us and what value we bring to them. So the more you know about that equation I think you're better in your job. So it's always kind of look at the big picture. I mean if I go back to the this course that I designed one of my my ideas has always been like share the basic knowledge. So sometimes you you talk to sales and they really don't understand partners. So you need to evangelize like okay here's where if you work with a partner you have coverage in places that you may not have and the sales velocity I mean partners close faster deals and they close bigger deals. So you need to kind of know that speech so it it's core that in a way you kind of you are able to articulate that story and the only way you can do it is by knowing the essentials and like how really the partnership space works outside of like the really the operational thing. So I think in the era of AI and LLMs and how you transform, what I'm saying is yes, of course learn all the tools as I touch based earlier like how a partner manager should be using generative AI to do QBRs, get better insights, go from reactive to proactive in terms of how they approach the right partners and with the right message. I think these are all critical components but on the other side what I'm saying is double down on learning the strategy know how things happen because that's really where you can add value. Otherwise tools are just tools uh and even I mean even sometimes you can ask and I mean ChatGPT on what to do in a specific situation we know still the answers are always like one percent like only one little angle of the answers and then you say hey but are you sure? And then the answer is oh yeah you're right kind of that maybe that's not the the right answer. So we we can rely 100% on those kind of answers. So if you don't have that judgment in the in in as part of your own background and and I think this applies and kind of as a conclusion to what I referenced earlier especially for people in more in operational tasks of the side of the business these are the ones that really need to stay even more more than everyone kind of relevant in in the business and understand how things operate. I think that's that's my my answer is kind of uh go outside the box of AI and understand the bigger picture and how the business works.

Maciej 40:05

Fantastic just like just as Justin left a question for you could you please ask a question of our next guest?

Pablo 40:12

Yeah that that's that's nice and and of course I I like this idea of kind of passing the ball to the next guest. I think we we touch based on this a little bit around the the role of partner managers. So my question for the next guest uh will be how do you see the role of partner managers evolving in the next coming years? We touch base on this idea of like getting rid of the operational tasks but I also always kind of have a question which is like you as a partner are you willing to spend more time with an agent or a chatbot if this already exists who supports your business? Is that enough? Or do you expect a real person as kind of we if we go back to like hey this is relationships this is like people doing business with people uh side of the business is like how how that equation is going to change in the future are partners willing to say hey yes I'm gonna invest $500,000 and hire 10 reps to drive this product line only by talking to a PM in email which I don't even know if it's a real PM or if it's like a machine. So I think this balance between um AI tools and real people behind and what partners expect as part of doing business with you for me it's a key area kind of to to kind of see how this is going to unfold.

Maciej 41:34

Fantastic thank you so much and we'll make sure to ask that question of the of the next guest. Pablo thank you so very much for coming on the show it's been an absolute pleasure to to speak with you. I'm a big fan of books of the channel need to check out the course myself yet and for everybody in the show notes the link is there as well as well as the one to the article that was mentioned in in today's episode go check this out let us know what you think

Pablo 41:59

I'm thrilled to be here thank you much I think it was a great conversation and for sure um you know I have here with me a lot of a lot of books so my my final takeaways just like really go learn more get more books on your bookshelf kind of get educated thank you for having me here it's been a pleasure

Maciej 42:17

thanks Pablo thank you for tuning in to this episode of Channel Voices I hope you enjoyed today's conversation and gained valuable insights don't forget to subscribe rate and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform every bit helps us grow and reach more future channel leaders like you thanks again and we'll catch you in the next episode